Burnout Is the Deepest "No" Your Child Will Ever Say (And It Might Be the Thing that Finally Heals Them) with Amanda Diekman

<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:00:00</time>
<p>Today we are looking at the top three things that parents get wrong about pda, Autistic and neurodivergent burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:00:08</time>
<p>With a very, very special guest joining us, Amanda Diekman.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:00:16</time>
<p>Welcome to the Attuned Spectrum Podcast.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:00:19</time>
<p>I'm Chantal Hewitt, an RDHD mum, experienced educator and autism support coach who understands your path because I also walk it daily.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:00:28</time>
<p>This is your space for real conversations that empower your autistic child, yourself and your family to thrive here.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:00:36</time>
<p>We respect neurodiversity, cheer on advocacy and leave judgment at the door.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:00:41</time>
<p>Join me inside this week's episode.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:00:49</time>
<p>So without any further ado, I am going to pass things over to Amanda because if you don't know her, I am sure that you are done.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:00:58</time>
<p>Definitely going to want to follow her in this space after this episode.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:01:02</time>
<p>Thanks so much for coming and being on the show, Amanda.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:01:05</time>
<p>Oh, I've really loved connecting with you as we've prepared and I'm thrilled to be with you.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:01:10</time>
<p>That's great.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:01:11</time>
<p>Is there just for those who don't know what you do, what your passions are, would you be able to give us a little bit of and just a glimpse into who you are, your life, the work that you do in the PDA space?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:01:28</time>
<p>Sure, I'd love to.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:01:30</time>
<p>I am a PDA adult raising three kids of varying neurotypes including PDA ers and we have more of the external easily visible presentation and that deeply internalized, heavy masking, people pleasing side side of things as well.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:01:52</time>
<p>So really a complex spectrum of PDA in our family.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:01:57</time>
<p>I started sharing online in about 2000 2022, I would say, right on the heels of my middle child's autistic burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:02:09</time>
<p>And that's really relevant for our conversation today because when he and he's a PDA or when he went into burnout, I had no idea what I was seeing.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:02:18</time>
<p>I I had no conceptualization.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:02:20</time>
<p>I didn't know he was autistic.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:02:21</time>
<p>I didn't had never heard of pda.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:02:24</time>
<p>All I knew is that a kid that was kind of more or less doing childhood in the normal way was suddenly not.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:02:31</time>
<p>It was so dramatic, so scary.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:02:35</time>
<p>And sharing that story and how we subsequently changed so many things in our, in our parenting life, how it changed me as a human, led to my own late diagnosis of autism and eventual understanding of PDA was my first book called Low Demand Parenting.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:02:55</time>
<p>And really the reason that I keep showing up and sharing and writing in this space is because every time I share my story I feel deeply connected to that earlier version of Me that had no idea and was so scared and so alone.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:03:11</time>
<p>And I care so deeply for all of the parents who are in that place right now.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:03:17</time>
<p>And it's really an honor to be a person who can now bring understanding and compassion and confidence to families who are, whether they're in burnout or not.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:03:31</time>
<p>But that's become just a really central part of how I want to show up in the world, is shedding light on childhood burnout, and in particular for PDA ers.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:03:40</time>
<p>Thank you so much.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:03:41</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:03:43</time>
<p>So within this particular episode, Amanda, and I'll be jumping in, hopefully not too much, because I want to learn so much from you, as do the listeners, but we will have a conversation on actually breaking down what PDA burnout does look like, the differences in how it can present and why it actually is different, because we do hear that word burnout so much, and there's that exhaustion burnout, and then there's a neurodivergent burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:04:12</time>
<p>And I think a lot of the times.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:04:14</time>
<p>I'm not sure if you agree or not or if this is your experience, Amanda, but when.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:04:18</time>
<p>When I mention burnout to a lot of families, they go, oh, but my kid's not working.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:04:24</time>
<p>Because a lot of the times I find that that burnout is so often linked to work or exhaustion or taking on too much, and the conversation is less about the nervous system and that sense of burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:04:40</time>
<p>Yeah, you're so right.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:04:43</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:04:43</time>
<p>And I think so in deepening and defining this understanding of childhood burnout, I think there are elements of a more occupational or, like a work burnout that's important to bring in.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:04:58</time>
<p>I think it's kind of a blend, as I've understood it, between an occupational burnout and a neurodivergent burnout that for childhood burnout in particular, it's really a combination of those two definitions.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:05:12</time>
<p>And in some ways, anytime you bring two things together, you're creating.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:05:15</time>
<p>Creating a whole new thing.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:05:16</time>
<p>So it's also.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:05:17</time>
<p>It's also got some of its own elements, its own defining features, because childhood is a really unique time in development.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:05:25</time>
<p>So let's talk about the occupational part first, because our kids typically, like some of the earliest burnout stories I've heard, have been in maybe the 2, 3, 4 range, and then all the way up into, you know, deep into young adulthood, where a person who maybe went to college or had their first job or left home, and then all of the complex demands of adulting crashed in so substantially that they really couldn't do it anymore.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:00</time>
<p>And often it involves A return home or a shift in living environment because the person needs so much daily help.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:08</time>
<p>So that's kind of the full spectrum.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:10</time>
<p>But if you think about that time period, there are actually a lot of jobs, a lot of expectations, a lot of demands.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:19</time>
<p>I define a demand as anything that is too hard for this person in this moment.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:23</time>
<p>So there's a lot of demands, especially for our PDA ERs that really are not aligned.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:28</time>
<p>It's not a fit for their neurotype.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:31</time>
<p>It might not be a fit for their interest, might not be really a fit for any kid.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:37</time>
<p>And our PDA ers are just extremely sensitive to those expectations.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:42</time>
<p>School is a huge factor in burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:45</time>
<p>And some of those youngest kids are often in a schoolish environment.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:52</time>
<p>And that is part of what leads to the burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:06:55</time>
<p>So I think there is an element of showing up at a place where you're.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:01</time>
<p>Where expectations are just constant, where there's very little respect for children.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:09</time>
<p>We live in a society that puts children on the bottom tier and adults on the top.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:15</time>
<p>And the younger you are, the further down you go, your whole day is controlled.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:22</time>
<p>And that's, that's going to be.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:24</time>
<p>It's going to wear out any PDA er.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:27</time>
<p>But when it gets to the level of burnout, it's typically impacting their other basic needs so substantially that they, that they can't perform the, the expectations of daily life.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:41</time>
<p>And I think that this is a note I want to put in here.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:43</time>
<p>I think that PDA ERs, most families of PDA ERs discover that they have a PDA or when they're in burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:52</time>
<p>And so in some ways, I wonder if our definition of PDA isn't a PDA or in burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:07:58</time>
<p>Kind of like the DSM criteria for autism is basically an autistic person in distress.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:08:04</time>
<p>And in that way, we don't actually have a great picture of PDA thriving.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:08:08</time>
<p>So maybe some people are like, well, you're just describing the PDA neurotype.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:08:12</time>
<p>Like it means that, you know, demands are impacting you so much that your basic needs become threatened or something like, I don't know.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:08:19</time>
<p>I don't think that that's the only way that a PDA can show up in the world.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:08:23</time>
<p>That is definitely what a PDA looks like in burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:08:27</time>
<p>And I'm, and I'm interested in elevating the conversation about burnout so that we can start to see our PDA ERs come out of burnout and we could learn, okay, what does it look like without so much distress?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:08:40</time>
<p>The other Elements that are in there are, or chronic exhaustion, which really does look different across the lifespan.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:08:49</time>
<p>Little kids in chronic exhaustion can be like wired up, like they can't slow down, they're compulsively moving as opposed to like an adult is almost always going to be really tired, like physically tired.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:01</time>
<p>You don't always see that in a kid.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:04</time>
<p>Then the, the loss of skills.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:07</time>
<p>So there's often some element of like they used to be able to do this and now they can't.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:12</time>
<p>Like they used to be able to fall asleep on their own and now they can't.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:14</time>
<p>Or they used to be able go to the bathroom on their own or they used to be able to play with their sibling and now they can't.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:22</time>
<p>And those skills are childhood skills, their play.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:26</time>
<p>It's sometimes independence, adaptability, sometimes it's just knowing what you like, like being able to enjoy something and that goes away.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:35</time>
<p>I used to say it's like the light went out of my child's eyes, like he just couldn't enjoy his life anymore.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:42</time>
<p>And then the last piece is a really intense intensification of sensory sensitivity.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:48</time>
<p>And that is because the nervous system is so depleted that all of those inputs are registering as a greater threat.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:09:56</time>
<p>So that'll impact stuff like you can't shower if the water is feeling like it's, you know, pins all over you when you're getting touched by that shower water.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:10:06</time>
<p>Or again, sleep can become really, really difficult when you're sleeping so lightly because every little sound is wak you up and, and that has to do with that hyper attuned nervous system that's now gone into overdrive around sensory threats.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:10:22</time>
<p>So those are the three defining features is chronic exhaustion, loss of skills and sensory sensitivity.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:10:29</time>
<p>And it's all wrapped up in this larger picture of what are we expecting of this child that's really not aligned for them.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:10:36</time>
<p>Thanks so much for that really clear kind of overview of what we're looking for when, when we're looking for burnout, when we are talking about what burnout can look like in our child, when we realize that these things like drastically, almost overnight have just changed.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:10:55</time>
<p>When really it is that accumulation over time.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:10:58</time>
<p>But when we aren't sure what to look for or how to prevent or when people, as you said, when parents are caregivers, they actually don't realize, oh my gosh, my child is in burnout, let alone my child's pda.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:12</time>
<p>What is pda?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:13</time>
<p>Yeah, or my child's autistic or I get a lot of oh, I had an idea, maybe adhd, because I think that's the comfortable one sometimes to sit with.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:23</time>
<p>But yeah, it's usually that burnout is that place that, like, not to be dramatic, but I think to normalize the burnout experience.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:30</time>
<p>It.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:30</time>
<p>It really is quite a dramatic feeling within the home, within the child, within those supporting them, and it can go on for quite some time.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:41</time>
<p>And the sentence or the phrase that you said of that light going out in your child's eyes, I think that so many people listening would have gone, yep, like, where's that tissue?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:53</time>
<p>That's.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:54</time>
<p>I know.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:54</time>
<p>I actually was like, yep, that's.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:11:57</time>
<p>I wondered that so much when my son was deep in burnout and even seeing the other families as well that I've been supporting and just.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:12:05</time>
<p>It is so sad and it's hard to talk about.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:12:08</time>
<p>So I think this conversation is so important to have to actually understand that while, yes, burnout is huge and we have to do something, and it's usually that indication of we, you know, now is the time to do something.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:12:25</time>
<p>But some examples of what burnout looks like may be quite helpful or because as you said, we've got internalizers, externalizers, the presentations, not even knowing people listening, going, what do you mean?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:12:40</time>
<p>There's internalized and externalized.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:12:42</time>
<p>Yeah, we can talk about that a little bit.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:12:45</time>
<p>Yeah, these are super great questions.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:12:48</time>
<p>And the.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:12:50</time>
<p>The way I think of burnout, again, to normalize and give people a metaphor of what burnout is here to do, because it's so scary, because it doesn't always happen overnight.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:04</time>
<p>I don't want to clarify.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:05</time>
<p>For us, it was.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:06</time>
<p>There was kind of like a one day to the next, and that's a common experience, but that's not everyone's experience.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:11</time>
<p>It can also feel like your kid has been in burnout their whole life.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:16</time>
<p>A lot of people tell me that, like, can you be in burnout for 10 years?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:19</time>
<p>And it's that kind of slow accumulating burnout where you maybe you take two steps forward and then five steps back, and you just can never really get any momentum or any feeling of.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:13:31</time>
<p>Of the.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:32</time>
<p>The flame coming back.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:33</time>
<p>So I think that burnout exists as a healing portal.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:38</time>
<p>It wants to take your child from where they are to a thriving place.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:45</time>
<p>And burnout is like the ultimate no.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:48</time>
<p>It's the big no to the way we've been doing things.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:52</time>
<p>I cannot do that anymore.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:54</time>
<p>That way was killing me.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:13:58</time>
<p>And you can now.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:00</time>
<p>It is so impacting my brain and nervous system that I can't do it anymore.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:07</time>
<p>Most kids try for a really long Time.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:11</time>
<p>And that's maybe what I would consider pre burnout is when they're still trying to keep up with all the expectations and it's slowly grinding them.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:21</time>
<p>And I kind of, I call this the help me phase because they're typically like, help me do my homework.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:28</time>
<p>It's too hard.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:29</time>
<p>I can't take the dog for a walk, I'm too tired.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:31</time>
<p>There's that classic like, my legs don't work, carry me upstairs, I can't climb the stairs.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:36</time>
<p>In a thousand ways they're trying to say this is too much, it's too much, it's too much, help me.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:40</time>
<p>And there is a point that happens in the, when it tips into full blown burnout, where the kid isn't looking to you for help anymore.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:51</time>
<p>They're so depleted.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:53</time>
<p>You have to rebuild that trust in you as the parent.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:14:56</time>
<p>You have to rebuild that sense in them that you will respond and that you are here to help and that you are here to heal and that thriving is possible.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:15:06</time>
<p>Not every kid loses it, but many, many do.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:15:09</time>
<p>And so I want to normalize that too.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:15:11</time>
<p>I felt like I had to become the parent that my kid needed so that he could believe in me again.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:15:19</time>
<p>And the way that that can look, that first real drop into burnout, it can be a kid who's alone in their room for 14 hours a day watching YouTube.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:15:36</time>
<p>That's probably the most common, I would say, but not always.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:15:41</time>
<p>It can look like a kid who's continuing to kind of go through the motions.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:15:45</time>
<p>But, but you're getting more and more, you know, their teacher is now concerned.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:15:50</time>
<p>Okay, they're, they're like acting out in class or they've started bullying other kids or you feel like their mental health is now being impacted.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:02</time>
<p>A lot of teenagers and burnout will, the first signal will be self harm or suicidal ideation.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:09</time>
<p>So the wake up call could be like a hospital hospitalization or an attempt especially for teens, eating disorders getting to a more severe presentation can another, be another sign for littler kids.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:25</time>
<p>It can be like for my son, just a total refusal.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:30</time>
<p>Like, no, I won't, I'm not going to school, I'm not going to eat that.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:35</time>
<p>I'm not going to go to just it was no to everything.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:37</time>
<p>And to say such a severe degree that I was like, what is this?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:41</time>
<p>You can't just check out of life.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:44</time>
<p>And that most severe presentation feels like a black hole.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:49</time>
<p>It feels like you've just dropped off the face of the planet.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:52</time>
<p>It feels, it feels like a crisis.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:16:55</time>
<p>And what I would like to offer Is that when it does its healing work on us, when it gives us that big no and that full re.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:07</time>
<p>Reorientation to what truly matters.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:10</time>
<p>And every parent who's been through burnout has this moment where they realize, if I could go back and change things, if I could go back and like, say, hey, yeah, you don't have to walk the dog tonight.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:21</time>
<p>It's fine, or, yeah, let's quit dance, or we would do it in a heartbeat, right?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:27</time>
<p>Like, we want to change what happened so badly, but that's a part of the process because then we are changing and we're changing on a heart level.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:36</time>
<p>We're changing our lives, lots of people.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:38</time>
<p>It changes their finances, it changes their marriages, it changes their futures.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:42</time>
<p>It changes so much.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:45</time>
<p>And by the time healing has kind of gone all the way through the cycle, our kid has gone all the way through their deepest, darkest no, and then back up out into, like, then what do you want to say yes to?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:58</time>
<p>What is the.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:17:59</time>
<p>What is it that you love?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:00</time>
<p>How do you thrive?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:01</time>
<p>And when we rebuild a life around their actual capacity rather than what we just think they're supposed to be able to do, that's when burnout ends.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:10</time>
<p>And burnout typically ends in this very gradual way where it kind of just like blurs into regular life.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:16</time>
<p>And one day we look back and we realize, huh, it's been a really long time since we had a bad day.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:21</time>
<p>Like, things are good now.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:23</time>
<p>We're okay now.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:24</time>
<p>But that comes with such a big lifestyle change and such a big heart change that many of us don't even really recognize who we were before when we look in the mirror.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:37</time>
<p>And that's for us as parents, and that's for our kids.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:40</time>
<p>And I think that that is the healing that burnout wants to bring into our lives.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:43</time>
<p>It wants to change everything.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:18:45</time>
<p>And when we don't let it, when we try to, like, stay the course, that's when it prolongs and can get really, really painful.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:18:55</time>
<p>I loved that the visualization of it's just so hopeful because I think, you know, I have a question that I'm sure you get all the time.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:06</time>
<p>I do as well.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:08</time>
<p>But I do think it's relevant because I loved actually just seeing, like, that ultimate.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:13</time>
<p>No, like I can actually see it.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:15</time>
<p>That dark place that.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:16</time>
<p>No.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:17</time>
<p>What you were saying about what burnout looks like in your son, that was my example as well.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:21</time>
<p>Like, literally, it was.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:24</time>
<p>It was just full on panic and absolute refusal for everything.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:28</time>
<p>And it was like, well, how.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:30</time>
<p>How can someone keep doing that?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:32</time>
<p>You know, I. I experienced My own adult burnout and probably did as a child as well, and just didn't realize it, but it can look so different and the way that someone holds it in or lets it out.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:43</time>
<p>But I love painting that helpful picture of burnout being healing and framing it that way.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:19:51</time>
<p>And the question that I get so often, and this will be different for everyone and every family, every burnout situation is, well, how long does it last?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:03</time>
<p>Do you ever get that question?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:20:05</time>
<p>Yeah, for sure.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:06</time>
<p>Does it take to heal?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:08</time>
<p>And when can I start reintroducing things?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:13</time>
<p>And what I see a lot of the time is the rush.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:17</time>
<p>Right?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:20:18</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:18</time>
<p>For whatever external reasons we want to get back.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:21</time>
<p>Opposed to, like, what you have said, the reframe of my child, my teen, my young adult, is now my job.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:29</time>
<p>For them to trust me again, to connect again, to show them that we can rebuild this and that I'm there with them, to support them, which could take quite some time.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:20:39</time>
<p>It can.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:20:40</time>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:20:41</time>
<p>Yeah, I think that burnout in my.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:20:47</time>
<p>In my work over the past couple of years, I've been defining three different phases of burnout, which I find really, really helpful for parents to start to see progress.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:20:56</time>
<p>Because part of that, when is this going to be over?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:20:59</time>
<p>Part of it is this feels like, terrifying.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:02</time>
<p>It can't go on any longer.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:04</time>
<p>And part of it, like you said, is, yeah, it's.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:06</time>
<p>It's a.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:06</time>
<p>Like, when are we going to get back to regular life?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:09</time>
<p>And.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:09</time>
<p>And neither of those things is answerable in a.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:12</time>
<p>In a simple way.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:13</time>
<p>But talking about the phases does help see movement within the healing journey.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:19</time>
<p>So the first phase is that.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:21</time>
<p>That full.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:22</time>
<p>I use the metaphor of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly for the first three phases because it's easy to remember.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:28</time>
<p>And it actually is, I think, a beautiful metaphor for burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:31</time>
<p>So the phase one is when the caterpillar goes into the chrysalis and dissolves into goo.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:36</time>
<p>It's like, actually has to dissolve its entire body structure.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:42</time>
<p>And it looks like that for a lot of.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:44</time>
<p>A lot of people.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:45</time>
<p>It's.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:46</time>
<p>It's like everything that you used to love and everything that you used to do is gone.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:51</time>
<p>And.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:53</time>
<p>And that is when radical acceptance is so powerful because it's saying, like, just like this, I still love you.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:21:59</time>
<p>You don't actually have to do anything to earn my love and respect.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:04</time>
<p>I will be with you even in your darkest days.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:07</time>
<p>That's all phase one material.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:09</time>
<p>Phase two, though, is so confusing because I call it curious, but no capacity.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:15</time>
<p>It's like the curiosity wakes up before the nervous System capacity does.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:20</time>
<p>And all of phase two feels like trial and error with a heavy dose of error.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:27</time>
<p>It's like.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:28</time>
<p>Like, you can't do anything right as the parent, and your kid can't really handle anything that they want to do.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:35</time>
<p>So they're like, let's go to the park.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:36</time>
<p>And then they have a meltdown at the park.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:38</time>
<p>Or they say, like, my kid brought me his iPad and was like, let's cook this thing together.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:43</time>
<p>But, like, 30 seconds into the cooking, he had a meltdown and told me I was stupid and went back.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:47</time>
<p>Back to his room.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:47</time>
<p>Like, that's all phase two material.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:22:51</time>
<p>And what I think the biggest mistake in that time is, especially for, like, let's hurry up and get life back to normal, is some of those first sparks of curiosity if we latch on to him too much and we're like, oh, you're suddenly interested in race cars?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:07</time>
<p>All right, great.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:08</time>
<p>Then we're gonna go to a race, and we're gonna learn everything.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:12</time>
<p>We can't.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:12</time>
<p>We try to.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:13</time>
<p>To, like, milk them for all they're worth.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:15</time>
<p>That's probably that example.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:16</time>
<p>But it doesn't matter what they're interested in.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:18</time>
<p>We are, like, so desperate to see life go back to normal that we put too much on those early interests.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:26</time>
<p>And that can send kids backward in the process.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:29</time>
<p>And often that's around school, right?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:31</time>
<p>Like, we want to see them get back to learning.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:33</time>
<p>And so.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:35</time>
<p>But phase two is for failures.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:37</time>
<p>It's for racking up failures and learning together.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:40</time>
<p>What does it look like to trust each other?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:43</time>
<p>And.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:43</time>
<p>And in the metaphor, I imagine that's the, like, busting out of the cocoon, but you're not ready to fly yet.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:49</time>
<p>Like, you have to, like, dry off your wings and be like, oh, my gosh, I'm a butterfly now.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:53</time>
<p>I was, like, crawling around in the dirt, and now I'm, like, going to go up there in the sky.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:57</time>
<p>What?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:23:58</time>
<p>So it's a really reorienting.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:00</time>
<p>And then phase three is like a takeoff, but it still requires you to be that steady place for them to come back and land.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:09</time>
<p>And they're really not ready to be on their own yet.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:12</time>
<p>And so it's a lot of scaffolding things for them.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:15</time>
<p>So that might be like, yes, they're ready to go back to school, but only part time.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:20</time>
<p>And you actually have to sit in the hallway outside the classroom all day long.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:24</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:25</time>
<p>It's not life as you thought it was going to be.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:28</time>
<p>It looks different because of what you've been through.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:31</time>
<p>And in terms of the how long, how long does it last?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:34</time>
<p>In most cases, each of those phases takes about six months, and that's a long time.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:40</time>
<p>And in teens and young adults, it can be a year for each phase because it took a long time to get here.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:48</time>
<p>And so it takes a long time to get out.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:51</time>
<p>And I do think that the more complex the situation, because there's always a lot of factors.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:24:56</time>
<p>Sometimes it's, yes, your kid is a PDA er, but they also also turns out, have like a complex food allergy.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:02</time>
<p>And then you discover that they had some school trauma you didn't know about and they have a learning disability.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:08</time>
<p>And you're like, okay, no wonder.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:25:09</time>
<p>Right?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:10</time>
<p>Because it.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:10</time>
<p>But it's a complex picture for every kid.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:14</time>
<p>And understanding all of the factors that got you there takes time.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:19</time>
<p>And that process will lengthen the burnout recovery because you have to see it all before you can remake a life around this particular kid in a way that they can actually thrive.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:34</time>
<p>Like what we.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:35</time>
<p>One thing we discovered was, no, you didn't want to eat with us.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:38</time>
<p>And that, yes, was partially, you know, a big pda.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:25:42</time>
<p>No.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:42</time>
<p>But it was also partially because you have misophonia around the sound of people chewing.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:48</time>
<p>And that is all.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:50</time>
<p>Is ongoing.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:51</time>
<p>You know, that didn't heal in burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:53</time>
<p>That's still there.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:54</time>
<p>So we still struggle with communal eating even though the burnout has ended.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:25:59</time>
<p>So that's where every recovery is going to be so individualized.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:26:04</time>
<p>But if you were adding that up, that means 18 months to three years is very common.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:09</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:10</time>
<p>And I think hearing that for so many parents, they might be picking themselves off the floor right now, or maybe, hopefully if they're driving, they didn't fall out of the car.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:21</time>
<p>But, but.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:24</time>
<p>And I think too, because when I say that to people of the length of how long it can take, it's like, oh, well, what.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:30</time>
<p>What about school?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:26:31</time>
<p>What about this?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:33</time>
<p>How do we have that time?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:35</time>
<p>But what you've said of, you know, how long did it take to accumulate into burnout?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:42</time>
<p>How long were they stuck there for without realizing or anyone?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:45</time>
<p>You know, not intentionally.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:48</time>
<p>Just like when we grow a baby and people go, you're going to get your body back.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:54</time>
<p>And you're like, I don't know about you, but I've been struggling for like six plus years.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:26:58</time>
<p>And I'm going, it doesn't just happen like that.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:01</time>
<p>And maybe we don't, you know, maybe it's.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:06</time>
<p>Some things are supposed to change us.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:08</time>
<p>I think burnout is one of those things.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:10</time>
<p>I don't think.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:11</time>
<p>I don't think we get our Life back.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:13</time>
<p>I think it's always in light of burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:16</time>
<p>Like, everything after.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:17</time>
<p>There's a before and an after for almost every family, and there's a before and an after for your kid.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:24</time>
<p>There's a before and after for you as the parent because it's such a transformative experience.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:31</time>
<p>I think sometimes it just helps to say, you know, if we can figure out how to adjust schooling expectations, expectations for kids with leukemia, we can figure out how to adjust schooling expectations for kids going through burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:46</time>
<p>If we can change lights and seating arrangements and medical adjustments for kids who have seizures in the classroom, then we can adjust for a kid who's in phase three and who's returning from burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:27:59</time>
<p>Like, we.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:00</time>
<p>I'm not saying that we do a great job with those things, but.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:04</time>
<p>But no one's going to say, well, you're a bad parent for your child's leukemia, changing you forever.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:11</time>
<p>Like, of course it does.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:12</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:13</time>
<p>And I think the same about burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:15</time>
<p>It is not small thing.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:18</time>
<p>It is a fundamental change.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:20</time>
<p>It is a huge portal for your child to go through for your teen or for your young adult.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:27</time>
<p>And of course it's going to change everything.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:30</time>
<p>And it's time for all the systems to wake up and to start responding accordingly because it's too much for any individual parent to do on their own.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:39</time>
<p>We really do need much, much bigger levels of support.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:28:43</time>
<p>We do.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:28:44</time>
<p>And it's such a feat in a whole other way, isn't it?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:48</time>
<p>Right.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:49</time>
<p>It's an important conversation, and I don't want to leave it out that responding to burnout is.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:55</time>
<p>It is a systems issue.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:28:58</time>
<p>And so if you're looking around thinking, but I, you know, I have to have childcare so that I can work, and I have to work so I can pay for this life.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:29:05</time>
<p>And my child's burnout is throwing all of that into chaos.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:29:11</time>
<p>You're right.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:29:12</time>
<p>You're not wrong.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:29:13</time>
<p>Like, this system is not built for us.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:29:18</time>
<p>All right.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:29:18</time>
<p>So, Amanda, we've had.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:29:21</time>
<p>Well, I mean, this has been so eye opening for me because I'm very visual.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:29:25</time>
<p>I love to think of a metaphor and to think of one in such a positive way, in a very realistic way.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:29:33</time>
<p>And just to know as well that this is something that not just you are going through.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:29:39</time>
<p>So if you are listening right now, audience, no matter how old your child is, if you feel like they are in a state of burnout and you, you need support or reassurance or, you know, just knowing that you're not alone, please know that you are not alone.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:29:57</time>
<p>And it Potentially when we have that radical acceptance and the support and we really understand pulling back and those phases of burnout and that it, it isn't an overnight thing and it does take time, but we are in it for that.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:30:15</time>
<p>Because kind of in those moments, I don't know how you felt, but for us it was like, how are we going to support them to learn and be in school when they cannot, when their mental state is struggling so much, it's like nothing else matters.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:30:31</time>
<p>Yes, that's right.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:30:34</time>
<p>And yeah.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:30:35</time>
<p>And I would love.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:30:37</time>
<p>Because you have written a second book.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:30:40</time>
<p>Yes, yes.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:30:42</time>
<p>Would you like to share?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:30:43</time>
<p>Because I know that that is releasing soon.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:30:45</time>
<p>We would love, absolutely love to know the details and how they can get their hands on it when it does release.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:30:53</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:30:54</time>
<p>I really wanted.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:30:57</time>
<p>So low demand parenting is like a book you can read in a weekend.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:00</time>
<p>It's a pretty easy read.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:02</time>
<p>It is a quick hitter.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:05</time>
<p>And I wanted this second book to be like that companion that can sit on your shelf or on your bedside table and walk all the way through that full three year portal with you.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:19</time>
<p>I wanted to.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:22</time>
<p>Because when you're in burnout, you need answers about something real specific.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:27</time>
<p>Right now you're like, yeah, but they'll only eat one food.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:32</time>
<p>What do we do?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:33</time>
<p>Or we're seeing aggression at levels that I think we might need to go to the hospital.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:37</time>
<p>What do we do?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:38</time>
<p>And, or, you know, how do I possibly help make this school day do like the kid has to go to school every day.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:45</time>
<p>How do we make school safe for burnout?</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:48</time>
<p>So I just was like, I'm going to write the comprehensive handbook to burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:52</time>
<p>So that's what I did.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:53</time>
<p>So this, my second book is called the Parents Handbook for Kids in Burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:31:57</time>
<p>And it is a monster of a book on purpose because I just, I want to be there with you through all this stuff.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:06</time>
<p>And it's also written, I wrote every word thinking about just how stressed I was and how exhausted I was and how I needed answers right now.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:17</time>
<p>And so it's like trying to bring all of this wisdom to your fingertips.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:23</time>
<p>And something I've found as a writer is that a book is actually such an accessible thing.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:28</time>
<p>Like coaching is expensive, courses are expensive, therapy is expensive, quitting your job is expensive.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:34</time>
<p>But one book can really do so much work in the world.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:38</time>
<p>So it feels also like an equity model of like request it at your library or share it with a friend.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:45</time>
<p>That, that makes me so happy.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:47</time>
<p>It's coming out in October and, and there's ebook version and print if you're Usually an ebook reader.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:32:58</time>
<p>I recommend getting the actual print version for this one because there's so many, like, charts and graphs and flip to this page so that you get this information.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:08</time>
<p>I think, you know, it's access it, however.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:11</time>
<p>But to me, it was meant to be printed, so manual, like for.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:17</time>
<p>Yeah, exactly.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:18</time>
<p>Like a workbook kind of thing, you know, that's the feel to it.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:22</time>
<p>So, yes, it is.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:23</time>
<p>We'll be out in the world and would just really love to also hear any of your stories.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:31</time>
<p>Like, maybe people are listening to this.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:32</time>
<p>Once the book is already out, please reach out to me.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:35</time>
<p>So many.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:36</time>
<p>The book is full of stories and they are all based on real people.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:41</time>
<p>And so I would also recommend, really love, to witness your story and to add it to the collection so that I can continue to deepen my understanding of burnout.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:54</time>
<p>Because every situation is so unique and also just so we can.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:33:58</time>
<p>We can connect and feel less alone.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:34:00</time>
<p>Because that's such a big part, as you said, of what the healing journey looks like is finding your people and finding people who don't make you feel crazy.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:34:08</time>
<p>Finding people who get it and then cling to those people, whoever they are, whether they're on the Internet, whether they're listening to your podcast, like, whatever it is, find those places and then, like, hold on to them like they're gold.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:34:21</time>
<p>Because they are.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:34:22</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:34:22</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:34:23</time>
<p>Just takes that weight off because it's just so heavy.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:34:25</time>
<p>Holding it all, navigating it all.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:34:29</time>
<p>You can find the link for Amanda's second book within the show notes.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:34:36</time>
<p>And I mean, I personally cannot wait to get my hands on the paper, like, proper manual at my kitchen table coffee.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:34:44</time>
<p>And I hope that everyone else will show.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:34:46</time>
<p>And it has a beautiful butterfly on the COVID to remind us all of what we're doing this for.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:34:51</time>
<p>To see our kids become a citizen of the sky, which is what they.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:34:55</time>
<p>That's their birthright.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:34:56</time>
<p>And, you know, I think PDA ers were born with an unquenchable thirst for freedom.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:35:02</time>
<p>And burnout is really a chance for us to remake a life that helps them to soar.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:35:08</time>
<p>And that butterfly reminds me of that every time I look at it, that these kids are made for this.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:35:16</time>
<p>And it's our job to change the world so that they can thrive.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:20</time>
<p>Yeah, it starts with us.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:21</time>
<p>I know we mentioned systems earlier, but if you can do that one small thing, it does make a difference in your own home, with your child.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:29</time>
<p>You give them that foundation and that trust, that connection.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:33</time>
<p>They actually will get to be.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:35</time>
<p>What did you call it?</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:36</time>
<p>The citizen of the sky.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:35:37</time>
<p>Yes.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:39</time>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:41</time>
<p>Well, thank you so much for joining me today.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:45</time>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:47</time>
<p>I love.</p>
<cite>Speaker A</cite>
<time>00:35:48</time>
<p>Such a pleasure.</p>
<cite>Speaker C</cite>
<time>00:35:49</time>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:35:54</time>
<p>Thank you so much for allowing me into your world today.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:35:57</time>
<p>Wherever you are around the globe, if you like what you've heard, I would be so grateful if you would click that subscribe button and comment below to tell me one thing.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:36:06</time>
<p>What support do you need?</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:36:09</time>
<p>This helps me create episodes that truly impact our shared community.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:36:13</time>
<p>By commenting, you not only help yourself, but you help make Modern Neurodiverse affirming autism support accessible to those who are searching for a better parenting approach.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:36:24</time>
<p>That actually feels good.</p>
<cite>Speaker B</cite>
<time>00:36:27</time>
<p>I'm Chantal and I'll see you next week.</p>